DON'T THROW THE BABY.... 04/24/01

Subj: Don't throw out the baby with the bath water (a bit long winded)
Date: 4/24/01 10:31:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time

(posted on Caritas dist list)

K.E. summarized W.S's comments as including, Men and women are totally mixed up as to what a healthy, normal male/female dating/marriage relationship is. We need to return to honoring what is truly precious. K. went onto say that the question, ...is learning about and protecting marriage.

From what I have heard on this list and from discussions with my daughters, it seems that a lot of young people heard some pretty distorted views of conjugial love (also referred to as marriage love), what it is and what it is not.

Unfortunately, it is hard for me to figure out what people on this list think about conjugial love, what it is and what it is not. When I read that there are only two uses to sex - procreation and pleasure - I wonder what people think conjugial love is and is not. When I read that someone would have sex with someone she or he is merely close to, I wonder what people think conjugial love is and is not.

What ever happened to the idea of chastity, chastity as it is described in
Conjugial Love, not chastity as the world describes it?

Here is what I personally think it is and is not, and where sex fits into the big picture.

> First, I believe that Conjugial Love clearly sets out the teaching that conjugial love is between one man and one woman.

> I believe that the primary use of intercourse, the use for which it was created, is conjunction, with procreation a by-product of the primary use. (When we are taught that the use of marriage is to populate the angelic heavens, it doesn't mean through the birth of natural children, but through the development of an angel - an angel being comprised of the male & female conjoined - through the loving development of the husband/wife relationship.)

> I believe that what is described in Conjugial Love is in direct opposition to the messages Mother Nature sends us. Nature's primary concern is the preservation of the human race through procreation; God's primary concern is our true happiness, which is spiritual, not natural, and the infusion of new angels into the heavens (for more on this, see above).

> I believe that as glorious as intercourse can be, it introduces a state that ideally belongs within marriage.

> I believe that we are created to want to go "all the way" ~ to the point of
feeling like we are going to bust if we do not ride the wave of passion to its crashing conclusion. That being said...

> I believe that we are supposed to put the integrity of our love relationship ahead of our clamoring desires. (Sorry ladies, but this is especially true of women, both by nature and because we are more keenly aware of consequences. Sorry gentlemen, but this doesn't get you off the "it's up to HER to protect the conjugial", about as barbaric a thought as I ever heard.)

> I believe that doing this - putting long-integrity before immediate passion - from a healthy viewpoint of preserving something precious, not "we will to burn if we don't", makes it natural and easier for the couple to put the relationship before clamoring desires after they are married.

> I believe that it's clear from "as the eye is to seeing & the ear is to hearing, so to is the sense of touch to conjugial love" that touch IS an important part of a developing relationship. I never understood friends who practically preened as they laid claim to not kissing their beloved until after the engagement.

> I believe that, ideally, a man should have his first sexual experience with his wife and a woman should have her first sexual experience with her husband - - and that they would be advised to read up about sex before their wedding night.

> I believe that when Conjugial Love talks about marriage being the seminary of the human race, it means more than simply procreation, which is possible outside of marriage, that it refers to a couple looking outside of self interests to the best interests of the marriage, and together look to the Lord. We are taught that an angel is comprised of a man and a woman conjoined into one spiritual being..

> I believe that we need to develop a more wholesome, realistic view of
Conjugial Love without throwing the baby out with the bath water; that while it is important to not make girls feel like preserving the conjugial falls on their shoulders alone and letting them know that having intercourse before marriage does not slam shut the gates to married love., it is also important to stress to boys and girls, men and women, husbands and wives, that fidelity to one partner remains the ideal.

I recall a sentence I have heard for as long as I can remember - that the state of the world at the time the Writings were written was so bleak when it came to thoughts of true married love, that few people had any idea what conjugial love was or even that it was. If we measure the value we give to the teachings on virginity and chastity and other ideals set out in the first half of Conjugial Love by what the world condones, than I daresay that no one will know what conjugial love is or that it is. If we include current culture as part of our yardstick, it seems pretty hopeless anyone will be able to learn about and protect marriage.

Personally, I do not think the beliefs set out above would change for me no matter what the prevailing culture. It seems to me that it was just as detrimental to conjugial love for two people to marry so they could have sex as it in these current times for people to have casual sex.

Living out great ideals is not easy, no matter when you were born, but worth it.

Thank you for letting me spout off. This has been a topic of great interest to me over the past weeks and I have given it a lot of thought. KRL

(from deev ~ i was lucky to grow up with a remarkably well-grounded mom, who responded to news of a friend's unwed pregnant daughter with, "pete & i were just lucky ~ when he wanted to give into passion, i was strong and when i wanted to give in, he was strong. who knows what would have happened if we'd both weakened at the same moment?" and who counseled another friend in a similar situation, who was bemoaning how her daughter had let her down because she (the mom) had trusted her (the daughter) with full, unchaperoned use of the basement family room, and look what had happened; mom's pitch perfect response - "i trust my kids; i just don't trust biology." 04/24/11